Discussion in 'Site News and Updates' started by Captain Cassidy, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. Captain Cassidy

    Captain Cassidy Yr Loyal &Etc. Corr. Staff Member

    When we got this forum software, one thing I really wanted was a wiki setup so people could write about stuff they think should be preserved for posterity. And we got it! But organization ahead of time is really important to me--it's easier to take the time to set it up correctly than to faff about afterward resetting everything to reflect a new organization.

    So this is kinda the tree I'm thinking about for the wiki; the bolds are portal categories, and underneath are sample pages that might go under those main categories.

    * Pictures of important stuff (ie, not flavor pics) are sourced, named, and have their own page with a writeup of what they are and where they're from (and appropriate copyright notices are observed).
    * Obviously, citations are given where needed, when something is asserted.
    * Snark is fine as long as there's no strawmanning.
    * Each portal has its own entry page with its contents and main sections. I have no idea how to do a random entry link or a link of the day but if the software lends itself to such a thing, that'd be cool.


    Forum culture
    Slang terms
    Mascots (Pallas Cats, B&B)
    Cult devotion object: Artor

    Favorite Books
    Why the Great Pan Died
    In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts
    Loftus' Why I am an Atheist

    Favorite Videos (w/sources, reviews)
    Evid3nc3: Why I'm No Longer a Christian
    Aron-Ra: Creationism
    Dover PBS documentary
    Your Inner Fish
    The Bible thing we're always talking about
    That Bible history archaeologist who is awesome x3

    History Links (all of the subheadings here are portals themselves)
    Ancient/Biblical History
    -- those quotes we keep running about how early Christians were assholes
    -- standing stones
    Roman/Classical History
    Medieval/Renaissance History
    Victorian-ish History
    Modern History

    Science Links
    Explanation of scientific method
    NCSE, Bad Astronomy, TalkOrigins archives

    Adverse Apologetica
    Debunks of miracle claims
    Debunks of popular apologetics arguments
    Writeups of Christian preachers and other leaders
    Psychology of Belief
    Credible studies about prayer, glossolalia, etc
    Stuff We Wish We'd Known

    And cross-reference as needed, since there's a lot of overlap between all these topics. Since I've probably written blog posts about these topics, cross-referencing to the blog posts would be good (I can add those myself; the in-game blog engine has a really nice search engine to locate posts on the fly--much better than using the terrible search engine on the blog!).

    Photos: kept to 550ish pixels wide OR tall; bigger need to be hosted offsite. Obviously, all copyright requirements need to be observed--in written text and in pictures. I've been blogging with pictures for years so if you guys want a quick rundown of how to figure out if a picture is able to be used, I'm glad to give one. Diagrams and other documents that really need the added detail are exempt from the size request. I'd also like Wikipedia or other online public-domain materials to be noted as such and sourced so nobody gets pissy at us for copying anyone.

    Speaking of which: I'm open to a Diagrams Portal.

    If anybody here is familiar with wiki organization, feel free to speak up. This is my first time doing one of these and I'm not going to claim to be perfect at it.
  2. Clancy

    Clancy I'm never sarcastic.

    I rarely actually lol, but the cult devotion object sure did. It just about kilt me.
    • Funny Funny x 3
  3. WereBear

    WereBear Cat Guru

    Artor, our golden... mythical creature!

    It looks good to me... we can link out to the wiki during discussions, which would be cool.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Azel

    Azel Asian contigent, expat edition

    It looks fine for me...perhaps a section on common fallacies in Counter-Apologetics? And one on Altemeyer's The Authoritarians under Favorite Books?
    • Agree Agree x 4
  5. Ubi Dubium

    Ubi Dubium Member

    There's already RationalWiki, that does a lot of articles on fallacies, miracle claims, and such. I think, if they have a good article on something already, it would be better to just link to it, instead of duplicating our efforts.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Captain Cassidy

    Captain Cassidy Yr Loyal &Etc. Corr. Staff Member

    Exactly so. The goal is to expand on ideas that the blog and blog community come up with, not reinvent any wheels. Our general adoration of DIAGRAMS is pretty blog-specific as far as I know, so it would definitely be something new. And I don't know of many sources that talk about The Authoritarians or, well, Artor, like we do.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  7. Captain Cassidy

    Captain Cassidy Yr Loyal &Etc. Corr. Staff Member

  8. Captain Cassidy

    Captain Cassidy Yr Loyal &Etc. Corr. Staff Member

    Kinda fuckin pissed that I seem to have broken the tree structure on my first day messing with it. Apparently it doesn't like having titles changed.
  9. Lambchopsuey

    Lambchopsuey Active Member

    The Authoritarians is terrific. A couple more sources I'd add are Eco Umberto's "Fourteen Ways of Looking At A Blackshirt" and the book by Emerson and Smith: "Divided by Faith: Evangelical Religion and the Problem of Race in America " and Jeffrey Hadden's related book, "The Gathering Storm in the Churches: A Sociological Look at the Widening Gap Between Clergy and Laymen" That last one addresses the Civil Rights Movement as an example.

    Another great book is Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark". Along those lines, add Neil Shubin's "Your Inner Fish" and Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel". Both of those latter two have been made into video series (check Youtube) and Guns is available in txt and pdf online:

    I'd also add the Rev. Robert Taylor's "Diegesis" (1820) to the list - it's online for free here:

    And Joseph McCabe's "The Story of Religious Controversy" - I think it was written ca. 1930 - here's a link to my most-used chapter, XXX, "The Conflict Between Science And Religion":

    I'm using the Wayback for that source even though it's online - now makes you go through a disclaimer to get into its library, so you can't link directly as above any more. Here is some information about Joseph McCabe:
  10. Lambchopsuey

    Lambchopsuey Active Member

    A good friend of mine has reported that RationalWiki seems to be under attack from conservative Christians the same way Wikipedia is, apparently with the goal of controlling RationalWiki the same way they control Wikipedia. The most dangerous are the "masqueraders", like Tim O'Neill, who insist they're atheists but parrot all the conservative Evangelical party lines and defend all the Christian talking points. I don't know if he's one of the RationalWiki attackers, but it sure sounds like his style.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Can you elaborate on this, please?
  12. Captain Cassidy

    Captain Cassidy Yr Loyal &Etc. Corr. Staff Member

    It's damn near impossible to get a Wikipedia entry in place that is openly critical of Christianity without it being molested up and down by Christians who can't stand seeing their religion depicted as losing in any way. Lambchop's got some stunning links regarding that problem--like how they mangled the link about worldwide headcounts of believers to make Christians sound like they have way more people than they really do, and way more compared to religions like Buddhism. A crowdsourced information source is only as honest and reliable as its editors.
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Velveteen

    Velveteen Member

    I've been adding some pages and links to the wiki!
    I have a link to a documentary on purity culture, Give Me Sex Jesus, that I wanted to put somewhere. It occured to me that it might have a section on phenomena like purity culture, the pro-life movement, or the rise of the fundamentalists in the 80s. My instincts tell me to put the history of that stuff in a Modern Christianity page, but I think a more general page on those topics might be helpful. Basically links that counter a lot of the political aspects common in Evangelical Christian circles. I think that could be helpful, especially where purity culture is concerned, since it can take a while to get the shame and self-hatred out of your mind even after you've left Christianity.
    Or I could just stick the link in the Media We Love page and be done with it. :)
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Captain Cassidy

    Captain Cassidy Yr Loyal &Etc. Corr. Staff Member

    Purity culture is a very good idea. I'll find a place for it.
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Lambchopsuey

    Lambchopsuey Active Member

    The Enlightenment - here is a quote from someone more than a century before the Enlightenment got off the ground but who shows that the ideas that coalesced into the Enlightenment were already in the air that early: "In a word, whoever will consult common sense upon religious opinions, and will carry into the examination the attention given to objects of ordinary interest, will easily perceive that the opinions have no solid foundation; that all religion is but a castle in the air; that Theology is but ignorance of natural causes reduced to a system...." (French, Michel de Montaigne, 1533-1592)
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Captain Cassidy

    Captain Cassidy Yr Loyal &Etc. Corr. Staff Member

    A remarkable quote for sure! Michel de Montaigne is a fascinating figure all in his own right. He went traveling all over the place and wrote books about what he saw and did that are some of the best primary sources about the time that one could hope to have. I didn't know that he felt that way about religion, but it's not a big surprise. Travel is one of those experiences that opens the mind.
  17. Captain Cassidy

    Captain Cassidy Yr Loyal &Etc. Corr. Staff Member

    BTW, if you want to be in on this, like you want to be able to edit or add to stuff on the Wiki, please drop me a line somewhere or say so somewhere I'll see it. It's super-easy to add permissions on this.
  18. Wayne Borean

    Wayne Borean Member

    Can we store screenshots there?

    Oh, and I love Wikis! Sign me up.
  19. Captain Cassidy

    Captain Cassidy Yr Loyal &Etc. Corr. Staff Member

    Yep! We've got some space limitations on individual photos, and ask that users please only upload images that are related to the wiki articles they're creating/editing. Otherwise, the world is your oyster.
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Wayne Borean

    Wayne Borean Member

    How do I see the Wiki?
  21. Clancy

    Clancy I'm never sarcastic.

    It should be a choice on the highest level menu, the blue bar that also includes "Home". You might need to be granted access by an admin. You certainly need to be granted access to update.
  22. Wayne Borean

    Wayne Borean Member

    LOL. Maybe I need to wake up!

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