In the past few years, a feud has emerged between Pope Francis and a particular hardliner segment of American Catholics. That feud is not only not coming to an end, it’s barely even begun to approach a middle. On Monday, Francis fired another shot at his factional enemies. In a meeting with some Jesuits, Francis accused his enemies of being “backward” and overly focused on ideology over faith.
Somehow, I don’t think that’s going to persuade them to stop being that way. They have already set their hearts on one outcome to this squabble, and Francis staying pope isn’t it.
Previous articles about Catholic infighting: Getting closer to schism; This has nothing to do with Nancy Pelosi; American Catholics blame gay priests for sex abuse. When I talk about hardline Christians, I refer to extremely conservative, culture-war-addled Christians who seek temporal power over the world and everyone in it.
Situation report: Pope Francis gets feisty
On August 5th, Pope Francis visited Portugal and met with some Jesuits there. Francis himself is a Jesuit—the first Jesuit Pope ever—so I’m sure he looked forward to it. During that meeting, though, one of the Jesuits mentioned that he’d had a rough week while on sabbatical in America, including plenty of criticism against Francis—some of it coming from bishops themselves.
I can easily imagine that.
There’s a large and apparently growing segment of Catholics who are the equivalent of the most fire-breathing, control-hungry, Hell-threatening, Bible-verse-obsessed, rules-lawyering, bigoted, cruelty-is-the-point hardliners in evangelicalism. If you run into someone like that and they don’t specify which hardliner flavor of Christianity they follow, you’ve only got about a 50% chance of guessing it. That’s how similar they are. The Venn diagram of attitudes and behaviors of hardliner Catholics vs. hardliner evangelicals is very nearly a perfect circle. One gets more into Mary, saints, and candles than the other, that’s all.
In response, Francis said something that I am sure set off his evangelical counterparts like rockets:
The 86-year-old Argentine acknowledged his point, saying there was “a very strong, organized, reactionary attitude” in the U.S. church, which he called “backward.” He warned that such an attitude leads to a climate of closure, which was erroneous.
“Doing this, you lose the true tradition and you turn to ideologies to have support. In other words, ideologies replace faith,” he said.
“The vision of the doctrine of the church as a monolith is wrong,” he added. “When you go backward, you make something closed off, disconnected from the roots of the church,” which then has devastating effects on morality.
“Pope Francis blasts ‘backwards’ U.S. conservatives, ‘reactionary attitude’ in U.S. church,” CBS News
Rather than drill down harder on ideology and dogma, Francis wants his sheep—including the fractious, chest-thumping ones in America—to allow their religion to evolve as humans’ understanding evolves.
Pope Francis wants everyone to just Jesus harder please
This isn’t a surprising stance for Francis to take.
The previous pope, Benedict XVI, was a favorite among hardliners all over the Catholic world. When Benedict stepped down in 2013—apparently because of insomnia—it must have shocked those hardliners when Francis was appointed. He seemed to be the polar opposite of the ultraconservative, culture-war-focused pope that some people called “God’s Rottweiler.” Benedict had never hidden, either, his distaste and wariness for Jesuits.
Where Benedict had been a thunderous voice trampling over every form of human progress, though, Francis seemed more interested in opening doors that had once been closed to marginalized people—and being gracious and kind to all. Of course, he did that while also acting really weird about Catholicism’s growing sex abuse crisis. If not a hero, he’s at least not quite as awful as the last villain to sit in his chair.
(Editor: Permission to call Francis ‘Darth Cuddlebug’?)
(Better not, it might catch on—Ed.)
During this recent meeting in Portugal, Francis presented a blueprint for getting everyone on board with his vision for Catholicism. He focused primarily on getting priests and bishops to Jesus harder: to perform more devotions, to think more about Jesus, to study the Bible and other Catholic materials more often and more deeply, to pray more often and more fervently, etc.
Like evangelicals all over the world, Francis is certain that if he can just get everyone under him to Jesus their hearts out, then everything else will just fall into place. He’s been talking like that for years now. And so have evangelicals.
Alas for both ends of Christianity, there’s no real way for anyone to resolve this age-old dispute.
Legalism vs. lukewarmness: an old fight migrates to Catholicism at last
Obviously, nothing in the Bible lays down any specific rules for Christians in terms of devotional behavior or beliefs. That doesn’t stop Christians from mangling Bible verses to make their own preferences sound like perfect, ideal TRUE CHRISTIANITY™.
Unfortunately, all those versions of TRUE CHRISTIANITY™ that individual Christians carry in their heads is purely subjective. If someone thinks another version is more correct, they won’t convince anyone else of it without a lot of charisma and superior Bible-mangling skills. But they all tend to agree that there does exist an ideal level of fervor that their god requires and which they must juggle with their real-world responsibilities and desires.
So for every Christian, there is a certain sweet spot of fervor-vs-real-world-living. Anything less than that becomes “lukewarm,” meaning apathetic and lackadaisical, while anything more becomes “legalistic,” which means being so focused on rules that someone forgets all about Jesus and love. (Christians get the idea of lukewarmness from Revelation 3:16. See, Jesus won’t eat them if they’re lukewarm.)

In the end, we are left with a definition of legalism that means stricter, more rules-focused, and more demanding devotions than a judging Christian feels is necessary. Lukewarmness, likewise, means less controlling, rules-oriented, and devoted than the judge thinks is proper.
Normally, though, one encounters evangelicals fussing about legalism, not Catholics. In fact, evangelicals are so immersed in the ideas behind legalism that they can barely imagine outsiders being utterly unaware of the term. (Years ago, I caught a big-name evangelical, Thom Rainer, claiming that people who are completely unaffiliated with church still somehow think his flavor of Christianity is “legalistic.”)
So it was a surprise to see Pope Francis accusing American hardliner Catholics of legalism. Sure, he didn’t use the word itself. But that’s what he did, all the same.
Francis is not completely wrong, though American hardliners sure didn’t like what he had to say
The Catholic-o-sphere hasn’t had a lot of time to react to this Portuguese meeting. But of the hardliner sites that have, they are not happy at all. Phil Lawler, writing for Catholic Culture, trotted out a strawman to criticize the guy in charge of his entire religion:
“Today it is a sin to possess atomic bombs; the death penalty is a sin,” Pope Francis told a gathering of Jesuits in Lisbon earlier this month. These are stern, clear, uncompromising statements. But, the Pope continued, “it was not so before.”
Thus in the past, the Pope tells us, it was not (or at least not necessarily) sinful to have nuclear weapons or to execute a convicted criminal. But now, he tells us, it is.
If something which was not sinful in the past is sinful today, can it work the other way around? Can something which was once sinful become morally acceptable—perhaps even welcome?
“A sin today, but not tomorrow: the curious doctrine of Pope Francis,” Catholic Culture
Then, Lawler fretted that Francis hasn’t slammed homosexuality quite as hard as he’d like.
The unfortunate Poe’s Law illustration
Lawler’s post illustrates exactly what Francis criticized during his meeting with the Jesuits: American hardliners’ fixation on rules and dogma over love for people and the necessity of change. My goodness, you can just about hear this self-righteous git whimpering over the idea of sitting next to a gay couple during Mass someday. He’s as locked-in-stone in his understanding of Christianity as any swivel-eyed Calvinist.
Of note, nowhere did Francis say that gay/bi people can join Catholic churches and then just go on seeking and marrying same-sex partners with his blessing. All he said was that churches needed to welcome everyone, everyone, and then priests must walk beside their sheep as they grow and develop in their faith. He explained himself very well, I thought. I mean, I don’t think it would work as well as Francis wants, but the fact remains that he did explain what he meant and Lawler missed it.
But Lawler is just terrified-sounding. Gosh, one day it won’t be okay for him to persecute and look down upon LGBT people! That’s just a world gone mad! That’s a world where the laws of physics no longer apply! It’s chaos incarnate! Who knows what might happen?!?
At the end of his post, Lawler tells us about his need for a “solid rock,” for Catholicism to be exactly the “monolith” that Francis criticized.
And therein lies the problem.
When hardline evangelicals’ obsession with inerrancy collides with Catholic custom
Hardline evangelicals tend to get gripey over Catholicism because Catholics have a lot of other resources besides just the Bible. Catholics are guided by the Bible, yes, but they also take into account all sorts of other writings made by Catholic leaders over the years. Catholicism itself would look unintelligible to first-century Christians.
This monolithic, unchanging Catholicism that Lawler needs never existed. To make Lawler’s situation worse, I’m willing to bet that a lot of Catholic scholars would consider his stance quite childish.
At least, that’s how they react to me when I start talking about inerrancy and contradictions in the gospels. From what I’ve seen, Catholic scholars tend to take a dim view of anyone taking the Bible too seriously as a literal history book.
Gimme that old-time religion, except without old-time sameness
A long time ago, when I converted to Pentecostalism, I believed that the very first Christians had gotten Jesusing perfectly right. Of course, right? Jesus had been with them in the flesh, I believed. After he died, Christians and Christianity had changed—for the worse, naturally. They’d gone right off the rails! And that was why so much of modern Christianity was so terrible.
Indeed, most of my time in Protestantism was spent seeking this gauzy vision of what I thought of as Original Christianity. I really thought that once I found it, everything would be great again.
Reality didn’t bear me out, unfortunately. The closer I got to what I thought was Original Christianity, the more abuse and control-grabs I saw and faced.
Of course, there’s no shortage of Christians who think they already practice Original Christianity. They’re convinced that there is literally no difference between their Jesusing and the Jesusing of Christians in the first century.
And they’re dead wrong. What almost all Christians today practice would look absolutely unintelligible to those earliest Christians if they could see it.
That’s not a bad thing, either.
The chameleon religion of Pope Francis—and almost all previous popes, for that matter
After my deconversion, I pulled back from Christianity. I got out of its context. Distance allowed me to view it dispassionately and from a remove.
That’s when I appreciated just what a chameleon Christianity is. I could even grudgingly admire how very clever its earliest leaders were in handling sensitive political matters to gain more and more temporal power. They also assimilated other religions’ customs and ideals to make conversion easier for pagans all over their territory. As an example, Catholic leaders quickly tamed the Irish goddess Brigid, bringing her onboard as a thoroughly-Catholic saint.
Catholicism dominated so much of the Western world for so long precisely because it could adapt, improvise, and overcome.
(Related: How Christianity moved from barely-tolerated to dominant.)
Everything changes: Silly White Beanie Edition
For all the criticism I levy at Catholicism, one thing I won’t ever fault it for doing is changing when change needs to happen.
Everything about life changes. When something can’t change, it stagnates. When we fight change, we suffer—while change occurs all around us anyway.
Thanks to our human brains, we can imagine things that don’t exist—like an unchanging world. Not even a religion changes the state of constant change.
I really don’t know how much longer Pope Francis will rule Catholicism. I do, however, know that he’s thrown another gauntlet at hardline American Catholics’ feet. Eventually, they’ll either settle down and quit fomenting schism, or they’ll get more and more out of hand until someone in charge has to deal with them.
It’s really too bad there aren’t any real gods involved with any flavor of Christianity. If any were, that’d sort this squabble out right quick. Then again, any real god worth its salt would have stamped out all that Catholic sex abuse that lasted for centuries before actual real people publicized it and agitated for change.
Stopping the sexual abuse of countless children failed to get Jesus off his tuckus. So I doubt he’ll rouse himself to mediate doctrinal fights.
No, I suspect there’ll be a lot more of these flung gauntlets in the next few years as regular mortals figure out how to navigate Catholicism in the modern age.
27 Comments
ericc · 08/30/2023 at 8:25 AM
“𝑇𝑜𝑑𝑎𝑦 𝑖𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑎 𝑠𝑖𝑛 𝑡𝑜 𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑠𝑒𝑠𝑠 𝑎𝑡𝑜𝑚𝑖𝑐 𝑏𝑜𝑚𝑏𝑠; 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑑𝑒𝑎𝑡ℎ 𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑎𝑙𝑡𝑦 𝑖𝑠 𝑎 𝑠𝑖𝑛,” [𝑃𝑜𝑝𝑒 𝐹𝑟𝑎𝑛𝑐𝑖𝑠 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑]…“𝑖𝑡 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑠𝑜 𝑏𝑒𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑒.”
Those are both terrible examples of sins, because they are things ‘the State’ does and even in Christian theology ‘the State’ doesn’t have a soul, isn’t going to heaven or hell, etc. RCC theology could say “it’s a sin to take jobs where you maintain, control, or use nuclear weapons” and likewise it could say “it’s a sin to be an executioner for the state,” but the way this is phrased, it’s a category error. (This is a quibble; the Pope’s larger point is clear.)
𝐵𝑢𝑡 𝐿𝑎𝑤𝑙𝑒𝑟 𝑖𝑠 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡 𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑟𝑖𝑓𝑖𝑒𝑑-𝑠𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔. 𝐺𝑜𝑠ℎ, 𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑑𝑎𝑦 𝑖𝑡 𝑤𝑜𝑛’𝑡 𝑏𝑒 𝑜𝑘𝑎𝑦 𝑓𝑜𝑟 ℎ𝑖𝑚 𝑡𝑜 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑒𝑐𝑢𝑡𝑒 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑙𝑜𝑜𝑘 𝑑𝑜𝑤𝑛 𝑢𝑝𝑜𝑛 𝐿𝐺𝐵𝑇 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒!
I give it less than 20 years. I predict that by 2043, all Protestant sects larger than, say, 5% of the US whole as well as the vast majority of RCC laypeople will accept ‘being gay’ as a not-more-sinful-than-normal state. Because of demographic changes. Official RCC doctrine will lag, but then again, it took the RCC until 1992 (300+ years) to officially admit Galileo was right.
𝐸𝑣𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑢𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦, [𝐴𝑚𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑛 ℎ𝑎𝑟𝑑𝑙𝑖𝑛𝑒 𝐶𝑎𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑙𝑖𝑐𝑠 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙] 𝑒𝑖𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑠𝑒𝑡𝑡𝑙𝑒 𝑑𝑜𝑤𝑛 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑞𝑢𝑖𝑡 𝑓𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑠𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑠𝑚, 𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦’𝑙𝑙 𝑔𝑒𝑡 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑜𝑓 ℎ𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑢𝑛𝑡𝑖𝑙 𝑠𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑐ℎ𝑎𝑟𝑔𝑒 ℎ𝑎𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑑𝑒𝑎𝑙 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑚.
Long term, US Catholicism will eventually accept LGBT+ folk because of the demographic changes mentioned above. Short term we’ll see more slapdowns, because the bigots will not go quietly into that good night. At least, that’s my guess.
Captain Cassidy · 08/30/2023 at 9:37 AM
I agree on all counts, especially regarding State-level “sins.” What’s next, corporations with souls?
WCB · 08/30/2023 at 5:29 PM
Pope Francis has repeatedly spoken out against bad economic policies and bad corporate ploicies and attitudes. So I cannot fault Pope Francis on that.
Zaqqum · 08/30/2023 at 8:23 PM
Given the number of wealthy folks funding right-wing organizations both Catholic and secular (looking at you Leonard Leo, Tom Monaghan, the Ricketts family, and others), that kind of talk might be behind the anti-Francis forces far more than any theological angel-dances.
Houndentenor · 08/31/2023 at 11:09 AM
Corporations are people! /s
Ficino · 08/30/2023 at 11:57 AM
I hope you’re right about Christian attitudes in future toward LGBT people. In East Africa Christians are ramping up anti-LGBT laws, all the way up to putting to death.
ericc · 08/30/2023 at 3:30 PM
Ah, yes – my prediction is only for the *US* Catholicism, maybe also Europe. You are right in that in many other places RCC and other Christian institutional bigotry against gays will continue. I would not expect any place in which Christians kill kids in exorcisms and as witches to become enlightened about gay rights any time soon.
LynnV · 09/07/2023 at 3:05 PM
No, they will not go quietly into that good night. They already have a plan for sticking around a very long time.
About 50 far-right hardliner groups and think tanks have gotten together and produced their manifesto for guaranteeing that the next election will be the end of democracy as we know it, if a republican wins the White House in the next election. The document, Project 2025, runs nearly 1000 pages. They are organizing thousands of people to have them ready to swoop in and provide the civic infrastructure for securing ultimate power for their POTUS, in return for a whole wish list of horrible things without any pushback from the public — because the way this thing is set up, over 50,000 federal employees who might stand in the way will have been fired and replaced by cronies and yes-men who will block any and all forms of pushback. The next election, if a repug wins, will probably be the last.
Even if Biden or another Dem wins, we will only be hanging on by our fingernails for another four years. These people are playing the long game and planning to win. They didn’t acknowledge defeat in 2020, and they certainly won’t in 2024. They will not go away. They will not change. And their hate, fueled by resentment, will only grow exponentially. They will disrupt and destabilize wherever they can in local, state and national political arenas while they bide their time, normalize fascism even further, and foment even more hate among their base.
Maybe the third time will be the charm for them? Who knows. If it is, I hope my husband and I are out of the country by then.
Artor · 08/30/2023 at 10:02 AM
“The vision of the doctrine of the church as a monolith is wrong,” he added.
Umm… Isn’t that exactly what the “catholic” in THE CATHOLIC CHURCH means?
Astrin Ymris · 08/31/2023 at 8:46 PM
Catholic means universal or all-encompassing. Doctrinal uniformity isn’t necessarily included. When we say someone has catholic tastes in music, we mean they like a lot of different types of music. The early Catholic Church was a lot more diverse and less centralized than we realize today.
Gwen the Devout, patron saint of atheism · 09/05/2023 at 9:44 PM
“Catholic” means “universal.” It’s an expression of the usual claim by Christian sects of being the One True Christianity. It doesn’t necessarily imply unchanging-ness, though.
Atea · 08/30/2023 at 12:17 PM
HA! Calling factions in the RCC “backwards”. This from a Pope who still believes in and has resurrected the office of Exorcism. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43697573
WCB · 08/30/2023 at 5:36 PM
Pope Francis wrote an encylical, Fratelli Tutti (Brothers All) condemning capital punishment and more. Pope Francis has been over many subjects, surprisingly progressive, outraging hordes of conservative Catholics.
Robert C · 08/30/2023 at 7:11 PM
If trends in Christian belief are any indication, the dog fight in the RCC matters less and less to fewer and fewer people. Ditto for evangelicals.
BensNewLogIn · 08/30/2023 at 8:33 PM
And then there’s the other side of this less than Frank pope.https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/29/europe/pope-francis-russia-ukraine-intl-hnk/index.html
Zaqqum · 08/30/2023 at 8:36 PM
Sorry, Francis haters, but I suspect this pope knows which side of his communion wafer the butter’s on. The future of the church, such as it may be, lies outside the western world for the foreseeable future and Francis is more aligned with that than trying to follow ̶P̶a̶l̶p̶a̶t̶i̶n̶e̶ Benedict in salvaging what he can of Catholic power in Europe and North America. In this he conflicts with the culture warriors in USia, including the Catholic hierarchy, which at this point has become an arm of the GOP, hoping that any success white evangelicals get in their ongoing power grab will leave a few crumbs for them (and maybe leverage for a future reversal of fortune too).
Francis’s denomination is comfortable with gambling, and that’s not a sure bet at all.
Houndentenor · 08/31/2023 at 11:12 AM
You are right. The future of the church (for all denominations) is outside Europe and North America, BUT the money that funds the church still comes from those countries. That’s why he’s trying to appease both the hardliners and the progressives. If the hardliners stop attending the church dies quickly but if those in the West stop giving they run out of funds. He needs it both ways and for now that game is working.
Zaqqum · 08/31/2023 at 5:29 PM
True that–the endgame might be a fulfillment of the colonialist fantasies of the right wing moneymen, ruling over a church whose pews are largely filled in the global south. That’ll only be temporary, as both secularism and Pentecostalism are spreading fast in Catholic territory outside the West, and this will only accelerate that process. Oh well.
BensNewLogIn · 08/30/2023 at 11:47 PM
From what I’ve seen, Catholic scholars tend to take a dim view of anyone taking the Bible too seriously as a literal history book.
“the late and certainly unlamented cardinal pell once admitted set the whole story of Adam and Eve was a myth constructed for religious purposes. I’ve had Christians explain to me that myths aren’t really myths they are symbols of greater truths, are made up, they are even truer than true because of that.
Chris Peterson · 08/31/2023 at 10:16 AM
“Ideology over faith”? What an absurd concept! His Assholiness has a lot of chutzpah making an assertion like that, given that “faith” is a meaningless word that has nothing to do with Catholicism, a religion that is built on the most rigid of ideology, on layer upon layer of rules and constructs.
Houndentenor · 08/31/2023 at 11:02 AM
Francis loves to hear himself talk like a liberal but he changes none of the church’s policies nor does he discipline any of the bishops and cardinals. How hard would it be to defrock known rapists? Let me know when he actually does something rather than just saying what people want to hear. It’s all bs until there are real actions behind the talk.
Chris Peterson · 08/31/2023 at 11:09 AM
If he’s “liberal” it’s only because the RCC has it’s own form of a massively non-central Overton window!
Astrin Ymris · 08/31/2023 at 8:35 PM
The interesting thing is that a lot of Trad Caths in America are Protestant converts. I suspect they “crossed to Tiber” because LGBT+ acceptance is slowly gaining ground among both mainline and fundagelical churches, and they saw the RCC’s reputation for not changing (unjustified as it is) an anchor against cultural change. But despite having joined the Catholic Church solely for its strong patriarchal hierarchy, they retain their Protestant mindset of feeling able to make up their own minds on issues of faith and doctrine, and to criticize Pope Francis openly. It’s kind of hilarious: They are literally trying to be more Catholic than the pope.
OldManShadow · 09/01/2023 at 10:53 AM
“Alas for both ends of Christianity, there’s no real way for anyone to resolve this age-old dispute.”
As the CEO of Jesus Old Timey, Inc., the Pope has tools at his disposal to get the bishopric to fall in line. Frank just doesn’t want to do that because the hardliners would probably revolt and schism.
So he’s not firing shots so much as he’s saying, “Come on, guys…” in a weak sort of voice.
Ziltoid · 09/05/2023 at 7:18 PM
Trevor Moore was funny. I was a fan of The Whitest Kids U Know.
Assessing Catholic miracles just got a lot easier - Roll to Disbelieve · 06/21/2024 at 4:00 AM
[…] A dicastery is a Catholic religious department that judges or assesses something. The other main one in Catholicism is the far-better-known Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, which makes decisions about what doctrinal beliefs Catholics should hold. Interestingly, it also handles sex abuse cases. (Just two weeks ago, Francis appointed new leaders to it as part of his ongoing battle with doctrinal hardliners.) […]
Saving the SBC: Authoritarians vs Love - Roll to Disbelieve · 09/23/2024 at 7:18 PM
[…] that happens in Christianity too. Even Catholic hardliners, who officially shouldn’t be worrying their pretty li’l feather heads about anything […]